v Munster - Friday 7.35pm

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Re: v Munster - Friday 7.35pm

Postby macdone on Sun Feb 20, 2022 7:13 pm

The Feral Goat wrote:Our short range attack last night was poor Venter looked the only one running a line and at space others just appeared to run straight at nearest defender.

Once realised weren't going anywhere then flung it wide with miss passes when a bit of composure through hands pick the gap may have given better outcome.

All felt a bit panicked and clueless once momentum was slowed.

Still some positives from last couple of weeks that our wider squad has competed pretty well with leinster and munster, only half a season Blair has been in the hot seat and decent progress to date.


I agree we probably need to upgrade our ball carrying ability, particularly in the pick and go game in the opposition 22. It would open up so much for the backline. The chances of an error when you have to go 20 phases to score are too high, as we have seen.
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Re: v Munster - Friday 7.35pm

Postby Trophyhunter on Sun Feb 20, 2022 10:39 pm

Viewed recording . A very frustrating watch . Perhaps conditions influenced some of the mistakes and Munster’s whirlwind start was helped by a strong wind at their back . The tap and go knock from penalty on their line however, belies explanation! Ref was also very inconsistent. Thought Immelmann played well as did Bennet and Haining . Dean did ok when he came on and gave the attack a bit more energy and shape . Sub Dave Cherry didn’t have his usual impact .
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Re: v Munster - Friday 7.35pm

Postby robdinsdale on Mon Feb 21, 2022 9:18 am

Friday Knight Lights wrote:
toocoldhere wrote:Muncaster, Boyle and Darge are all going well at their respective clubs. This is a huge positive for the future Scottish backrow


Muncaster is a future Edinburgh and maybe Scotland captain imo.

I listened to the BBC Scotland rugby podcast. Tom English was very unimpressed with Kinghorn. I think it was his first below par match at 10 and what I feared all the games would be like. But he's been good so far and there's surely no question of moving him back to 15.


Kinghorn wasn't great but away games against strong opposition are what he needs to get under his belt, don't think he's had too many similar so far in his career at 10.

Generally I thought this game (and the Leinster one actually) were good learning experiences for the team rather than one of the humpings we've had in the past when we've sent the wider squad out over the 6 Nations.
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Re: v Munster - Friday 7.35pm

Postby robdinsdale on Mon Feb 21, 2022 9:22 am

macdone wrote:
The Feral Goat wrote:Our short range attack last night was poor Venter looked the only one running a line and at space others just appeared to run straight at nearest defender.

Once realised weren't going anywhere then flung it wide with miss passes when a bit of composure through hands pick the gap may have given better outcome.

All felt a bit panicked and clueless once momentum was slowed.

Still some positives from last couple of weeks that our wider squad has competed pretty well with leinster and munster, only half a season Blair has been in the hot seat and decent progress to date.


I agree we probably need to upgrade our ball carrying ability, particularly in the pick and go game in the opposition 22. It would open up so much for the backline. The chances of an error when you have to go 20 phases to score are too high, as we have seen.


Think we rely on the likes of Schoeman in the pick and gos, even if Venter has been showing up relatively well.

Munster seem to have worked us out on our first phase attacks as well, it was Lang on the crash ball every time and they were all over him.
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Re: v Munster - Friday 7.35pm

Postby dolf_lundgren on Mon Feb 21, 2022 2:33 pm

Pick and go generally we are not great at, that is Glasgow us and Scotland. Vs Wales we battered their line a few times and didnt get over.

Im not sure that the issue is, we dont seem to latch the way other teams do. Although you now have to be very careful others still seem to be able to do it and get momentum. Im not sure if it is the setup, the pass being floated or just the lack of power, but we do seem very poor at it.

The backs looked short of imagination again, off Lineouts it seemed to be Boyle hitting Lang on the crash was our go to, which Munster lapped up. Im not sure why we dont use Immelman on the crash, he can put players on their backside and its what he is good at.
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Re: v Munster - Friday 7.35pm

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Mon Feb 21, 2022 4:45 pm

dolf_lundgren wrote:Pick and go generally we are not great at, that is Glasgow us and Scotland. Vs Wales we battered their line a few times and didnt get over.

Im not sure that the issue is, we dont seem to latch the way other teams do. Although you now have to be very careful others still seem to be able to do it and get momentum. Im not sure if it is the setup, the pass being floated or just the lack of power, but we do seem very poor at it.

The backs looked short of imagination again, off Lineouts it seemed to be Boyle hitting Lang on the crash was our go to, which Munster lapped up. Im not sure why we dont use Immelman on the crash, he can put players on their backside and its what he is good at.


The latch rule change means picks and goes from the 5 are pretty pointless. Exeter who made the five metre tap all the rage don't score from it anymore.

It's bad tactics and coaching - lineout drive or scrum set piece is surely what we should be aiming to do?

I'm also disappointed that the throw miss passes when you've given up on pick and goes continues. To be honest it's just bad play because the backs in defence can get very set - get a good rest when the forwards are making no metres and then have the energy to absolutely sprint out of the line and snuff it out.

It's bad play design all around. I'll watch how Blair changes this with interest.
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Re: v Munster - Friday 7.35pm

Postby toocoldhere on Mon Feb 21, 2022 7:03 pm

Genuine question. Do we need to bring in an additional forwards coach? I just feel that Lawrie maybe needs someone else working with him. We shifted from essentially two forwards coaches and an attack coach, to two attack coaches and a forwards coach (plus Macrae doing defence).
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Re: v Munster - Friday 7.35pm

Postby dolf_lundgren on Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:22 pm

Friday Knight Lights wrote:
dolf_lundgren wrote:Pick and go generally we are not great at, that is Glasgow us and Scotland. Vs Wales we battered their line a few times and didnt get over.

Im not sure that the issue is, we dont seem to latch the way other teams do. Although you now have to be very careful others still seem to be able to do it and get momentum. Im not sure if it is the setup, the pass being floated or just the lack of power, but we do seem very poor at it.

The backs looked short of imagination again, off Lineouts it seemed to be Boyle hitting Lang on the crash was our go to, which Munster lapped up. Im not sure why we dont use Immelman on the crash, he can put players on their backside and its what he is good at.


The latch rule change means picks and goes from the 5 are pretty pointless. Exeter who made the five metre tap all the rage don't score from it anymore.

It's bad tactics and coaching - lineout drive or scrum set piece is surely what we should be aiming to do?

I'm also disappointed that the throw miss passes when you've given up on pick and goes continues. To be honest it's just bad play because the backs in defence can get very set - get a good rest when the forwards are making no metres and then have the energy to absolutely sprint out of the line and snuff it out.

It's bad play design all around. I'll watch how Blair changes this with interest.


Not sure I agree with the taps, yes the law changed to take away some of the advantage, but plenty of teams still use i very effectivly. Did Munster not get a try off a tap?

it is more the pick and goes in general, it feels like when the likes of Munster (and Wales) got to out line there is a sense of inevitability that they will barrel over eventually, I just dont get that with us.

Fair point on the coaching. Im not sure how much access we also have to the national coaches but we certainly have PDV available for scrums. I wonder if we are just too slow in the execution it allows defenders to get into position, possibly a confidence thing, scared to go quickly un case we lose the ball.
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Re: v Munster - Friday 7.35pm

Postby The Feral Goat on Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:37 pm

I think we (ER and Scotland) are too slow in the pick and goes that the defence has generally reset. Pick and go tries appear to come when ruck speed is quicker and the defence is perhaps drifting out still so easier for a player on the angle to get over.

Not sure if our clearout is not quick enough or we are too cautious looking to set the attack before moving the ball or combination, either way don't looking scoring very often.
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