Squad 22/23

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Re: Squad 22/23

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Tue Jul 12, 2022 9:44 am

TheSmidge wrote:Academy roster for 22-23 confirmed:

Edinburgh Rugby
Matt Russell (Heriot’s Rugby)**
Ben Evans (Heriot’s Rugby)**
Jamie Campbell (Heriot’s Rugby)**
Dan Gamble (Heriot’s Rugby)**
Nathan Sweeney (Heriot’s Rugby)**
Harry Paterson (Watsonians)**
Patrick Harrison (Watsonians)**
Robbie Deans (Watsonians)*
Liam McConnell (Boroughmuir Bears)*
Mike Jones (Boroughmuir Bears)**
Rudi Brown (Southern Knights)**
Harri Morris (Southern Knights)**
Cameron Scott (Southern Knights)**
Jacob Henry (Southern Knights)**
Finn Douglas (Southern Knights)*

** Retained FOSROC Scottish Rugby Contracted Academy Player from 2021/2022
*New FOSROC Scottish Rugby Contracted Academy Player

The only one we've really seen so far is Harrison, but it is really now make or break for quite a few of the guys who have been retained. It's good to see Jacob Henry in the 7s squad for the Commonwealth Games, but I hope he kicks on this season and features a few times in blue and orange.

There is a comment in the SRU article that "more than a third" of last year's academy have signed pro deals, but the numbers don't quite add up yet. I think 5 of Glasgow's academy last year have signed pro contracts, but only 1 of ours (Matt Currie). Roan Frostwick (along with Jack Blain!) is currently playing in Australia, but that may just be a development thing over the summer and he is going to sign a pro deal. With 12 players retained from last year, the only other player missing is Cole Lamberton.


I'm very surprised to see a lot of names there.

Gamble was supposed to go pro last year - yet another year in the academy? How did he do at LS The Chiel?

Like Henry and Patterson from what I've seen at s6 level but a few injuries in there. Hope to see them this season. But with a very very strong back 3 currently it'll be hard to get a look in.

I think Harrison should go pro - looked terrific in the games Cockers played him. Jamie Campbell and Rudi Brown looked big when they played for Edinburgh. Will be very hard for either to get a game at lock mind.

Deans is a young TH monster but we've seen how they're being developed currently.

The rest mostly older and mostly not very good when they play (which isn't much) in the s6.
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Re: Squad 22/23

Postby TheSmidge on Tue Jul 12, 2022 11:53 am

Friday Knight Lights wrote:
TheSmidge wrote:Academy roster for 22-23 confirmed:

Edinburgh Rugby
Matt Russell (Heriot’s Rugby)**
Ben Evans (Heriot’s Rugby)**
Jamie Campbell (Heriot’s Rugby)**
Dan Gamble (Heriot’s Rugby)**
Nathan Sweeney (Heriot’s Rugby)**
Harry Paterson (Watsonians)**
Patrick Harrison (Watsonians)**
Robbie Deans (Watsonians)*
Liam McConnell (Boroughmuir Bears)*
Mike Jones (Boroughmuir Bears)**
Rudi Brown (Southern Knights)**
Harri Morris (Southern Knights)**
Cameron Scott (Southern Knights)**
Jacob Henry (Southern Knights)**
Finn Douglas (Southern Knights)*

** Retained FOSROC Scottish Rugby Contracted Academy Player from 2021/2022
*New FOSROC Scottish Rugby Contracted Academy Player

The only one we've really seen so far is Harrison, but it is really now make or break for quite a few of the guys who have been retained. It's good to see Jacob Henry in the 7s squad for the Commonwealth Games, but I hope he kicks on this season and features a few times in blue and orange.

There is a comment in the SRU article that "more than a third" of last year's academy have signed pro deals, but the numbers don't quite add up yet. I think 5 of Glasgow's academy last year have signed pro contracts, but only 1 of ours (Matt Currie). Roan Frostwick (along with Jack Blain!) is currently playing in Australia, but that may just be a development thing over the summer and he is going to sign a pro deal. With 12 players retained from last year, the only other player missing is Cole Lamberton.


I'm very surprised to see a lot of names there.

Gamble was supposed to go pro last year - yet another year in the academy? How did he do at LS The Chiel?

Like Henry and Patterson from what I've seen at s6 level but a few injuries in there. Hope to see them this season. But with a very very strong back 3 currently it'll be hard to get a look in.

I think Harrison should go pro - looked terrific in the games Cockers played him. Jamie Campbell and Rudi Brown looked big when they played for Edinburgh. Will be very hard for either to get a game at lock mind.

Deans is a young TH monster but we've seen how they're being developed currently.

The rest mostly older and mostly not very good when they play (which isn't much) in the s6.


I was surprised to see Gamble get another year in the academy, particularly as his bio on the official website still says he was going pro in 2021. Something odd going on there.

Agreed on Harrison, another one who really should be going pro and is taking up an academy space now.

Really want guys like Henry and Patterson to kick on, but we have depth in the back 3 so opportunities will be limited. Henry could end up a core 7s player next season.
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Re: Squad 22/23

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:03 pm

TheSmidge wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote:
TheSmidge wrote:Academy roster for 22-23 confirmed:

Edinburgh Rugby
Matt Russell (Heriot’s Rugby)**
Ben Evans (Heriot’s Rugby)**
Jamie Campbell (Heriot’s Rugby)**
Dan Gamble (Heriot’s Rugby)**
Nathan Sweeney (Heriot’s Rugby)**
Harry Paterson (Watsonians)**
Patrick Harrison (Watsonians)**
Robbie Deans (Watsonians)*
Liam McConnell (Boroughmuir Bears)*
Mike Jones (Boroughmuir Bears)**
Rudi Brown (Southern Knights)**
Harri Morris (Southern Knights)**
Cameron Scott (Southern Knights)**
Jacob Henry (Southern Knights)**
Finn Douglas (Southern Knights)*

** Retained FOSROC Scottish Rugby Contracted Academy Player from 2021/2022
*New FOSROC Scottish Rugby Contracted Academy Player

The only one we've really seen so far is Harrison, but it is really now make or break for quite a few of the guys who have been retained. It's good to see Jacob Henry in the 7s squad for the Commonwealth Games, but I hope he kicks on this season and features a few times in blue and orange.

There is a comment in the SRU article that "more than a third" of last year's academy have signed pro deals, but the numbers don't quite add up yet. I think 5 of Glasgow's academy last year have signed pro contracts, but only 1 of ours (Matt Currie). Roan Frostwick (along with Jack Blain!) is currently playing in Australia, but that may just be a development thing over the summer and he is going to sign a pro deal. With 12 players retained from last year, the only other player missing is Cole Lamberton.


I'm very surprised to see a lot of names there.

Gamble was supposed to go pro last year - yet another year in the academy? How did he do at LS The Chiel?

Like Henry and Patterson from what I've seen at s6 level but a few injuries in there. Hope to see them this season. But with a very very strong back 3 currently it'll be hard to get a look in.

I think Harrison should go pro - looked terrific in the games Cockers played him. Jamie Campbell and Rudi Brown looked big when they played for Edinburgh. Will be very hard for either to get a game at lock mind.

Deans is a young TH monster but we've seen how they're being developed currently.

The rest mostly older and mostly not very good when they play (which isn't much) in the s6.


I was surprised to see Gamble get another year in the academy, particularly as his bio on the official website still says he was going pro in 2021. Something odd going on there.

Agreed on Harrison, another one who really should be going pro and is taking up an academy space now.

Really want guys like Henry and Patterson to kick on, but we have depth in the back 3 so opportunities will be limited. Henry could end up a core 7s player next season.


Agree on Henry but my worry is 7s fitness/body composition and training with them so often just makes it harder for him in 15s. As I've said he's done well in the super6, he's done well in the 7s (I presume to be picked in the comm games squad). Guys like Henry and Patterson are reasons someone like Immelman (who did play well at the end of the season) shouldn't be picked. Middle of the road NSQs are clogging up very limited player pathways and Edinburgh and Glasgow have older academies because of it.
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Re: Squad 22/23

Postby The Chiel on Wed Jul 13, 2022 9:34 am

Friday Knight Lights wrote:
How did he do at LS The Chiel?



I only saw Gamble in a couple of games, and both as a sub IIRC, but I liked what I saw. Put himself about, tackled, carried, quite vocal and given his quick and late arrival did pretty well. In fairness, given Scottish's season, all sorts of caveats apply ( yes, including the one that I'm biased towards young Scots in an LS shirt ! :) ).

The "least worst" aspect of Scottish's play was the scrum, which held up reasonably well against all but the top teams. But the starting tight five changed virtually every week.

Be good to see him get some URC time this season, maybe during the AIs or 6N.
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Re: Squad 22/23

Postby TheSmidge on Wed Jul 13, 2022 11:40 am

The Chiel wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote:
How did he do at LS The Chiel?



I only saw Gamble in a couple of games, and both as a sub IIRC, but I liked what I saw. Put himself about, tackled, carried, quite vocal and given his quick and late arrival did pretty well. In fairness, given Scottish's season, all sorts of caveats apply ( yes, including the one that I'm biased towards young Scots in an LS shirt ! :) ).

The "least worst" aspect of Scottish's play was the scrum, which held up reasonably well against all but the top teams. But the starting tight five changed virtually every week.

Be good to see him get some URC time this season, maybe during the AIs or 6N.


IIRC, the original intent last season was to have virtually no URC fixtures during the AIs or 6N and it was only Covid postponements that required them to take place. Not to say it won't happen again (is that a wave I can see on the horizon?) but possibly less opportunities for fringe players other than in games immediately before/after international window.
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Re: Squad 22/23

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Wed Jul 13, 2022 11:55 am

TheSmidge wrote:
The Chiel wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote:
How did he do at LS The Chiel?



I only saw Gamble in a couple of games, and both as a sub IIRC, but I liked what I saw. Put himself about, tackled, carried, quite vocal and given his quick and late arrival did pretty well. In fairness, given Scottish's season, all sorts of caveats apply ( yes, including the one that I'm biased towards young Scots in an LS shirt ! :) ).

The "least worst" aspect of Scottish's play was the scrum, which held up reasonably well against all but the top teams. But the starting tight five changed virtually every week.

Be good to see him get some URC time this season, maybe during the AIs or 6N.


IIRC, the original intent last season was to have virtually no URC fixtures during the AIs or 6N and it was only Covid postponements that required them to take place. Not to say it won't happen again (is that a wave I can see on the horizon?) but possibly less opportunities for fringe players other than in games immediately before/after international window.


Yeah there's no gametime on international weekends which is bad for fringe and young players. Gamble has to play soon though, two years out the 20s next season. The clock is ticking.
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Re: Squad 22/23

Postby dolf_lundgren on Thu Jul 14, 2022 10:07 am

He does but that is the underlying problem, props cant really be expected to be highly competitive in the URC at 22, they just take longer to mature. Yes there are exceptions to that, but it is a big issue with our squad sizes and system that we have to make a decision on players at 21/22 which is before the have realy had a chance to mature.

Totally different for backs and some forward positions obviously.
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Re: Squad 22/23

Postby Trophyhunter on Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:18 pm

Couldn’t agree more on growth and age expectations. Taking some youngsters early into full pro contact is not always in their interests , especially forwards . Hopefully Super 6 will better balance development skill , nous and athletic development with education before demands of full time Pro environment take over. Looking at our international backs I note some such as Lang , Harris and Matt Scott completed University before going full time .

Which reminds me … how did Lang and Dean miss out on tour to Argentina ? The 12s have been pretty average apart from an improved H2 20 minutes from Sam Johnson.
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Re: Squad 22/23

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Thu Jul 14, 2022 7:43 pm

dolf_lundgren wrote:He does but that is the underlying problem, props cant really be expected to be highly competitive in the URC at 22, they just take longer to mature. Yes there are exceptions to that, but it is a big issue with our squad sizes and system that we have to make a decision on players at 21/22 which is before the have realy had a chance to mature.

Totally different for backs and some forward positions obviously.


Sure but then he doesn't play when he's 22 so you have a player at 23/24/25 who has no pro experience and therefore they just aren't very good. Because you don't get to be good at something (rugby matches) if you never get to do it (play rugby matches).

And I agree it is a problem you make a decision on players before they've played. But the bigger issue is no realistic path for them to play.
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Re: Squad 22/23

Postby biffer on Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:56 am

Friday Knight Lights wrote:
dolf_lundgren wrote:He does but that is the underlying problem, props cant really be expected to be highly competitive in the URC at 22, they just take longer to mature. Yes there are exceptions to that, but it is a big issue with our squad sizes and system that we have to make a decision on players at 21/22 which is before the have realy had a chance to mature.

Totally different for backs and some forward positions obviously.


Sure but then he doesn't play when he's 22 so you have a player at 23/24/25 who has no pro experience and therefore they just aren't very good. Because you don't get to be good at something (rugby matches) if you never get to do it (play rugby matches).

And I agree it is a problem you make a decision on players before they've played. But the bigger issue is no realistic path for them to play.


Exactly. These lads aren't playing week to week which is what causes them to never break through. Super 6 needs some binding conditions around young players.
Don't mention Rory Hutton. I did once but I think I got away with it.
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Re: Squad 22/23

Postby biffer on Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:57 am

Friday Knight Lights wrote:
TheSmidge wrote:Academy roster for 22-23 confirmed:

Edinburgh Rugby
Matt Russell (Heriot’s Rugby)**
Ben Evans (Heriot’s Rugby)**
Jamie Campbell (Heriot’s Rugby)**
Dan Gamble (Heriot’s Rugby)**
Nathan Sweeney (Heriot’s Rugby)**
Harry Paterson (Watsonians)**
Patrick Harrison (Watsonians)**
Robbie Deans (Watsonians)*
Liam McConnell (Boroughmuir Bears)*
Mike Jones (Boroughmuir Bears)**
Rudi Brown (Southern Knights)**
Harri Morris (Southern Knights)**
Cameron Scott (Southern Knights)**
Jacob Henry (Southern Knights)**
Finn Douglas (Southern Knights)*

** Retained FOSROC Scottish Rugby Contracted Academy Player from 2021/2022
*New FOSROC Scottish Rugby Contracted Academy Player

The only one we've really seen so far is Harrison, but it is really now make or break for quite a few of the guys who have been retained. It's good to see Jacob Henry in the 7s squad for the Commonwealth Games, but I hope he kicks on this season and features a few times in blue and orange.

There is a comment in the SRU article that "more than a third" of last year's academy have signed pro deals, but the numbers don't quite add up yet. I think 5 of Glasgow's academy last year have signed pro contracts, but only 1 of ours (Matt Currie). Roan Frostwick (along with Jack Blain!) is currently playing in Australia, but that may just be a development thing over the summer and he is going to sign a pro deal. With 12 players retained from last year, the only other player missing is Cole Lamberton.


I'm very surprised to see a lot of names there.

Gamble was supposed to go pro last year - yet another year in the academy? How did he do at LS The Chiel?

Like Henry and Patterson from what I've seen at s6 level but a few injuries in there. Hope to see them this season. But with a very very strong back 3 currently it'll be hard to get a look in.

I think Harrison should go pro - looked terrific in the games Cockers played him. Jamie Campbell and Rudi Brown looked big when they played for Edinburgh. Will be very hard for either to get a game at lock mind.

Deans is a young TH monster but we've seen how they're being developed currently.

The rest mostly older and mostly not very good when they play (which isn't much) in the s6.


Thought Brown was a no8?
Don't mention Rory Hutton. I did once but I think I got away with it.
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Re: Squad 22/23

Postby robdinsdale on Wed Jul 20, 2022 9:06 am

biffer wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote:
TheSmidge wrote:Academy roster for 22-23 confirmed:

Edinburgh Rugby
Matt Russell (Heriot’s Rugby)**
Ben Evans (Heriot’s Rugby)**
Jamie Campbell (Heriot’s Rugby)**
Dan Gamble (Heriot’s Rugby)**
Nathan Sweeney (Heriot’s Rugby)**
Harry Paterson (Watsonians)**
Patrick Harrison (Watsonians)**
Robbie Deans (Watsonians)*
Liam McConnell (Boroughmuir Bears)*
Mike Jones (Boroughmuir Bears)**
Rudi Brown (Southern Knights)**
Harri Morris (Southern Knights)**
Cameron Scott (Southern Knights)**
Jacob Henry (Southern Knights)**
Finn Douglas (Southern Knights)*

** Retained FOSROC Scottish Rugby Contracted Academy Player from 2021/2022
*New FOSROC Scottish Rugby Contracted Academy Player

The only one we've really seen so far is Harrison, but it is really now make or break for quite a few of the guys who have been retained. It's good to see Jacob Henry in the 7s squad for the Commonwealth Games, but I hope he kicks on this season and features a few times in blue and orange.

There is a comment in the SRU article that "more than a third" of last year's academy have signed pro deals, but the numbers don't quite add up yet. I think 5 of Glasgow's academy last year have signed pro contracts, but only 1 of ours (Matt Currie). Roan Frostwick (along with Jack Blain!) is currently playing in Australia, but that may just be a development thing over the summer and he is going to sign a pro deal. With 12 players retained from last year, the only other player missing is Cole Lamberton.


I'm very surprised to see a lot of names there.

Gamble was supposed to go pro last year - yet another year in the academy? How did he do at LS The Chiel?

Like Henry and Patterson from what I've seen at s6 level but a few injuries in there. Hope to see them this season. But with a very very strong back 3 currently it'll be hard to get a look in.

I think Harrison should go pro - looked terrific in the games Cockers played him. Jamie Campbell and Rudi Brown looked big when they played for Edinburgh. Will be very hard for either to get a game at lock mind.

Deans is a young TH monster but we've seen how they're being developed currently.

The rest mostly older and mostly not very good when they play (which isn't much) in the s6.


Thought Brown was a no8?


Think he is, but I'm not sure it's any easier for him to get a game there!
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Re: Squad 22/23

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:02 pm

The 20s and Southern Knights have been using him as a lock. Maybe because there's a good few back rows at both. But stage 3 players should be first pick at those levels.
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Re: Squad 22/23

Postby dolf_lundgren on Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:26 pm

Brown looked like a good 6/8 when he played for Edinburgh, as said already im not sure he is big enough for the second row.

A good update on injuries from Mike Blair this morning, promising on Mata and Ritchie in particualr but also Venter and Immelman. De Bruin sounds like the one struggling a bit, which is in a position where we are already a bit light on quality. Hopefully Williams will get a bit more game time and continue to improve.
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Re: Squad 22/23

Postby TheSmidge on Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:02 pm

dolf_lundgren wrote:Brown looked like a good 6/8 when he played for Edinburgh, as said already im not sure he is big enough for the second row.

A good update on injuries from Mike Blair this morning, promising on Mata and Ritchie in particualr but also Venter and Immelman. De Bruin sounds like the one struggling a bit, which is in a position where we are already a bit light on quality. Hopefully Williams will get a bit more game time and continue to improve.


Interesting that Robbie Deans is also specifically name checked by Blair as well in that video, particularly given that De Bruin is the one that is furthest away from a return. Suggests we may see him feature in one of the pre-season games, at least to see if he’s anywhere near being able to make a small contribution this year. Still very young for a prop, especially a tighthead!
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