Scotland - Samoa

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Scotland - Samoa

Postby Frenchy on Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:10 pm

Team's out:

Hogg
Seymour
H Jones
Dunbar
L Jones
Russell
Price

Marfo
McInally
Nel
Toolis
J Gray
Barclay
Watson
Wilson

Bhatti
Turner
Fagerson
Swinson
du Preez
Pyrgos
Horne
Harris

Marfo makes his Scotland debut, Turner likely to do so as well.
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Re: Scotland - Samoa

Postby biffer on Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:12 pm

Comes to something when Edinburgh's 4th or 5th choice loose head is considered ahead of Glasgow's first choice.
Don't mention Rory Hutton. I did once but I think I got away with it.
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Re: Scotland - Samoa

Postby Tichtheid on Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:24 pm

biffer wrote:Comes to something when Edinburgh's 4th or 5th choice loose head is considered ahead of Glasgow's first choice.



I honestly think Bergs is a little unlucky to not make the bench ahead of Fagerson at the moment.

We need to up our game in the backs, but when we have the likes of McCallum, Crosbie, Bradbury and Ritchie waiting in the wings, the only Weedgie forward I see making the breakthrough soon is Cummings

I liked what I saw of Fenton last week too.
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Re: Scotland - Samoa

Postby biffer on Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:35 pm

If you look at the pack that's in the quad but not been picked

Sutherland, Cochrane, Berghan, Gilchrist, Cummings, Ritchie, Bradbury, Harley

I'm pretty sure I've seen worse Scotland packs.
Don't mention Rory Hutton. I did once but I think I got away with it.
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Re: Scotland - Samoa

Postby Tichtheid on Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:38 pm

biffer wrote:If you look at the pack that's in the quad but not been picked

Sutherland, Cochrane, Berghan, Gilchrist, Cummings, Ritchie, Bradbury, Harley

I'm pretty sure I've seen worse Scotland packs.



...and if we were to put that pack out I'd want to swap Crosbie in for Harley
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Re: Scotland - Samoa

Postby gowrie on Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:41 pm

biffer wrote:If you look at the pack that's in the quad but not been picked

Sutherland, Cochrane, Berghan, Gilchrist, Cummings, Ritchie, Bradbury, Harley

I'm pretty sure I've seen worse Scotland packs.


Or going further,
Dell, Brown, Welsh, R Gray, Bresler, Hamilton, Hardie, Strauss

and
Laidlaw, Jackson, Maitland, Scott, Bennett, Visser, Taylor in the backline.

Again, I can think of worse Scotland teams than that from the recent past.
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Re: Scotland - Samoa

Postby Tichtheid on Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:51 pm

Where are our international backs going to come from?

Bennett as and when he's fit, Graham and Kinghorn?

Sam H-C and Weir have a lot of catching up to do, imo
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Re: Scotland - Samoa

Postby biffer on Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:17 pm

Tichtheid wrote:Where are our international backs going to come from?

Bennett as and when he's fit, Graham and Kinghorn?

Sam H-C and Weir have a lot of catching up to do, imo


Kinghorn and Graham, as you say have the potential. Bennett already there so long as he gets back to full fitness and Hoyland is every bit as good as Jones, better IMO. Chris Dean could still develop to contribute at that level, Galbraith also has the potential given his U20 showing this summer. Shiel and Baggott in the academy both seem to be highly regarded, I've got no info on the other academy guys. But there's eight for the next few years.
Don't mention Rory Hutton. I did once but I think I got away with it.
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Re: Scotland - Samoa

Postby gowrie on Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:25 pm

Tichtheid wrote:Where are our international backs going to come from?

Bennett as and when he's fit, Graham and Kinghorn?

Sam H-C and Weir have a lot of catching up to do, imo


Kinghorn and Bennett should be around the 6N team, though both might be going for the 23 shirt. Hoyland if he can sort his defence out still has a lot of potential, and Graham too if he can handle the step-up to pro rugby.

Longer term Shiel and Galbraith will hopefully make it, but Glasgow have very good young talent across the backline that could take over from the current crop. So I can't see us dominating a test backline for a very long time outside of injuries.
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Re: Scotland - Samoa

Postby biffer on Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:46 pm

gowrie wrote:
Tichtheid wrote:Where are our international backs going to come from?

Bennett as and when he's fit, Graham and Kinghorn?

Sam H-C and Weir have a lot of catching up to do, imo


Kinghorn and Bennett should be around the 6N team, though both might be going for the 23 shirt. Hoyland if he can sort his defence out still has a lot of potential, and Graham too if he can handle the step-up to pro rugby.

Longer term Shiel and Galbraith will hopefully make it, but Glasgow have very good young talent across the backline that could take over from the current crop. So I can't see us dominating a test backline for a very long time outside of injuries.


Bennett has a few years on some of the established centres remember, he's 25 this season (January), Taylor is 28, Dunbar the same age in April (and may fall to pieces physically eventually). I think Hoyland's defence is not bad actually, he works hard at it and generally tackles well. Made a cracking turnover in defence earlier this season too, against Zebre I think it was.

Don't mind not dominating, particularly if we're still dominating the forwards selection, but contributing a bit more would be good!
Don't mention Rory Hutton. I did once but I think I got away with it.
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Re: Scotland - Samoa

Postby gowrie on Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:08 pm

biffer wrote:Bennett has a few years on some of the established centres remember, he's 25 this season (January), Taylor is 28, Dunbar the same age in April (and may fall to pieces physically eventually). I think Hoyland's defence is not bad actually, he works hard at it and generally tackles well. Made a cracking turnover in defence earlier this season too, against Zebre I think it was.

Don't mind not dominating, particularly if we're still dominating the forwards selection, but contributing a bit more would be good!


Given their histories, I'd say Bennett has as good a chance of struggling with injuries as Dunbar does so I'll put that to one side. Dunbar/Jones could easily have another 3-4 years as a partnership by which time Kelly and McDowall will hopefully have established themselves, and Dean might take over the role of the big 12 if he keeps on improving, so one Edinburgh player comes at the expense of another.
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Re: Scotland - Samoa

Postby biffer on Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:49 pm

gowrie wrote:
biffer wrote:Bennett has a few years on some of the established centres remember, he's 25 this season (January), Taylor is 28, Dunbar the same age in April (and may fall to pieces physically eventually). I think Hoyland's defence is not bad actually, he works hard at it and generally tackles well. Made a cracking turnover in defence earlier this season too, against Zebre I think it was.

Don't mind not dominating, particularly if we're still dominating the forwards selection, but contributing a bit more would be good!


Given their histories, I'd say Bennett has as good a chance of struggling with injuries as Dunbar does so I'll put that to one side. Dunbar/Jones could easily have another 3-4 years as a partnership by which time Kelly and McDowall will hopefully have established themselves, and Dean might take over the role of the big 12 if he keeps on improving, so one Edinburgh player comes at the expense of another.


Dunno, Bennett has had two catastrophic injuries whereas Dunbar seems to nearly have bits falling off him. Always a bit of a dice roll when it comes to fitness so who knows.
Don't mention Rory Hutton. I did once but I think I got away with it.
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Re: Scotland - Samoa

Postby The Feral Goat on Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:06 pm

This season don’t see many Fife maybe challenging Jones in this series but both may lose out to a fit Maitland for the 6N.

Longer term

Despite the current strength and depth at centre it feels rare that we have any more than 2 or 3 fit at any one time. I agree that Dean has potential his running lines and decision making in attack are much improved this season, I think he would really benefit from being invited to just train with the Scotland squad at some point and be around Taylor and Dunbar.

Kinghorn needs to eradicate the howlers as Cockerill said if he does that certainly should be around the squad. However depending on the impact Graham makes on Pro rugby when fit it may be one of the two backing up Hogg.

SHC really should be Townsends sort of player him and Price competing for the 9 jersey and pushing each other to be better would be good but he is just not hitting the form of his breakthrough season, how long do you give him.

Weir I don’t think fits Townsends style, unfortunately he may not fit ERs either the Tovey/Burleigh 10/12 link is proving pretty effective at present behind our pack.
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Re: Scotland - Samoa

Postby dolf_lundgren on Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:08 pm

I'm not sure where Bennet will be in the pecking order when he is fit. Grigg was getting picked ahead of him for the big games last season before he got injured. By all accounts GT doesn't rate his defence, part of the reason he was moved on (it was before GT decided to move)

Kinghorn should be around soon, although he is perhaps unlucky to be in the same position as Hogg who is something of a freak (nicest way etc) SHC cant be far away, if Fowles is getting picked then he must be close, they are sharing the starts with Edinburgh and I think most outside the Fowles family would think SHC is the more talented player, albeit not as consistent.

Hugh Fraser is one who was touted as being a cap, alongside Graham etc. Shame he has "stepped back".

Although its an all Glasgow back line, really the only one you could even vaguely argue with is Lee Jones, the rest are obvious picks.

As mentioned above, the thought of the front row replacements would make you lose sleep, should be ok vs Samoa but bs the ABs we could be in a lot of trouble.
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Re: Scotland - Samoa

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:27 pm

Chris Dean is miles away from a cap considering he isn't a starter at Edinburgh. Bennett played more Champions Cup than Grigg? Grigg isn't why he left Glasgow, Huw Jones is. A fit and on form Bennett is an international no doubt, Grigg is too small (same with JJ unfortunately).

You'd assume Burleigh is likeliest next cap or Fowles as both in the current squad. However, Kinghorn is certainly an international of the future. Graham looks electric and I think he'll get there.

Shiel is an interesting one, quickest service I've seen from an age grade Scotland scrum half but very erratic. If Toonie does end up playing really quick rugby I think Shiel is that type of player.

Well done to the forwards though - especially BBT as Toonie does like Swinson.
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