Scotland - Samoa

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Re: Scotland - Samoa

Postby gowrie on Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:06 pm

Friday Knight Lights wrote:Chris Dean is miles away from a cap considering he isn't a starter at Edinburgh. Bennett played more Champions Cup than Grigg? Grigg isn't why he left Glasgow, Huw Jones is. A fit and on form Bennett is an international no doubt, Grigg is too small (same with JJ unfortunately).

You'd assume Burleigh is likeliest next cap or Fowles as both in the current squad. However, Kinghorn is certainly an international of the future. Graham looks electric and I think he'll get there.

Shiel is an interesting one, quickest service I've seen from an age grade Scotland scrum half but very erratic. If Toonie does end up playing really quick rugby I think Shiel is that type of player.


You're right on Dean, though I'll still say on this season's performances I'd take him starting over Burleigh any day. And neither Burleigh nor Fowles look like they're going to be long-term options for Scotland in their positions, which is more of a reflection in the differences between us and Glasgow.

I liked what I saw of Shiel, but I wonder what happened to Simmers from the same U20 team? He had some very good games in that tournament, and was first choice ahead of Shiel.
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Re: Scotland - Samoa

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:23 pm

gowrie wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote:Chris Dean is miles away from a cap considering he isn't a starter at Edinburgh. Bennett played more Champions Cup than Grigg? Grigg isn't why he left Glasgow, Huw Jones is. A fit and on form Bennett is an international no doubt, Grigg is too small (same with JJ unfortunately).

You'd assume Burleigh is likeliest next cap or Fowles as both in the current squad. However, Kinghorn is certainly an international of the future. Graham looks electric and I think he'll get there.

Shiel is an interesting one, quickest service I've seen from an age grade Scotland scrum half but very erratic. If Toonie does end up playing really quick rugby I think Shiel is that type of player.


You're right on Dean, though I'll still say on this season's performances I'd take him starting over Burleigh any day. And neither Burleigh nor Fowles look like they're going to be long-term options for Scotland in their positions, which is more of a reflection in the differences between us and Glasgow.

I liked what I saw of Shiel, but I wonder what happened to Simmers from the same U20 team? He had some very good games in that tournament, and was first choice ahead of Shiel.


I'd also prefer Dean at 12 than Burleigh in the long term but if Burleigh puts in performances like vs the Ospreys we'll be fine. I agree, I don't think Burleigh or Fowles are long term options for Scotland but they aren't for Edinburgh either. I'd be surprised if Kinghorn isn't a feature of this Edinburgh side in two years but not sure which other backs will join him.

Simmers was solid but unspectacular, doesn't seem to be playing BT Prem so perhaps he's gone abroad? I don't think he has the potential to be a professional though, Shiel has the better attributes just needed more coaching.
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Re: Scotland - Samoa

Postby disco on Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:09 pm

Match preview including head to heads (and before anyone says it yes I've probably leaned towards Samoa on a few calls):

https://wp.me/p68WtH-7KA
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Re: Scotland - Samoa

Postby macdone on Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:31 am

Potentials for the future are SHC, Shiel, Dean, Johnstone, Van der Merwe, Graham and Kinghorn from the current squad.

The obvious gaps for us long term are 10 and 12. Edinburgh don't have anyone coming through in those positions.

With Hoyland it's definitely not about his ability. It's obviously a character thing if Brown and Harries are getting picked ahead of him, which is a shame.
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Re: Scotland - Samoa

Postby biffer on Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:20 am

disco wrote:Match preview including head to heads (and before anyone says it yes I've probably leaned towards Samoa on a few calls):

https://wp.me/p68WtH-7KA


I’d probably rank Lemi ahead of Jones but apart from that looks right.
Don't mention Rory Hutton. I did once but I think I got away with it.
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Re: Scotland - Samoa

Postby BigD163 on Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:29 am

disco wrote:Match preview including head to heads (and before anyone says it yes I've probably leaned towards Samoa on a few calls):

https://wp.me/p68WtH-7KA


7 is the one I disagree with most. TJ Ioane can't buy a start for Sale and is probably more of a 6(IIRC). I'd have Watson ahead as a 7.
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Re: Scotland - Samoa

Postby germain on Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:21 pm

disco wrote:Match preview including head to heads (and before anyone says it yes I've probably leaned towards Samoa on a few calls):

https://wp.me/p68WtH-7KA


I don't think so.
For most of commentators, the issue of this game is obvious. Not for me.

Samoa have been on the decline for at least five years now. In 2011, there was a good coach and good team which was sacked due to their criticism of samoa's official's attitude. Mahonri Schawalger was one of those dismissed players.
He is now back and I hope this is the beginning of a new era for samoan rugby. Good captain are not always good coach, but why not be hopeful for them ? So if he can bring their mojo back, they will be very dangerous.

And we lost against Fidji in the summer so it's absolutly not utopic to see us lose this. I would very surprised to see a samoan victory, but I think this will not be easy.

And for TJ Loane, I don't know how he fares now, but he was an absolute beast of a player. Powerful, clever, skilful. I do love Pele Cowley too: a small and old-fashionned scrum-half : a remnant of past times...
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Re: Scotland - Samoa

Postby germain on Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:45 pm

dolf_lundgren wrote:
Kinghorn should be around soon, although he is perhaps unlucky to be in the same position as Hogg who is something of a freak (nicest way etc)

Although its an all Glasgow back line, really the only one you could even vaguely argue with is Lee Jones, the rest are obvious picks.


Kinghorn is really unlucky. I still don't understand why he is not called upon.
Yes, he is not perfect, but who is ? And who is more talented than him (apart Hogg and Russell) ? Lee Jones' pick is a bit of a joke when you think to Kinghorn. Yes, he has no howlers but he brings no danger either. He is just a Toonie's favourite (and not Kinghorn obviously)... But well, I'm going too far. I probably prefer Jones to Kinghorn to play on the wing but this non-selection troubles me.

For the future, I think we are giving far too much credit to Graham and Shiel. I really wish them to succeed but they're yet to make their pro starts. It's too early. You're criticizing Kinghorn's howlers ? Just look to some -20 games to see Graham's : he has a fair few on his name...

Kinghorn, Hidalgo-Clyne, Dean and Bennett are, at the moment and probably for a while, the only four backs from Edinburgh that I think could be consistent at international level.
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Re: Scotland - Samoa

Postby germain on Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:04 pm

germain wrote:
disco wrote:Match preview including head to heads (and before anyone says it yes I've probably leaned towards Samoa on a few calls):

https://wp.me/p68WtH-7KA


I don't think so.
For most of commentators, the issue of this game is obvious. Not for me.

Samoa have been on the decline for at least five years now. In 2011, there was a good coach and good team which was sacked due to their criticism of samoa's official's attitude. Mahonri Schawalger was one of those dismissed players.
He is now back and I hope this is the beginning of a new era for samoan rugby. Good captain are not always good coach, but why not be hopeful for them ? So if he can bring their mojo back, they will be very dangerous.

And we lost against Fidji in the summer so it's absolutly not utopic to see us lose this. I would very surprised to see a samoan victory, but I think this will not be easy.

And for TJ Loane, I don't know how he fares now, but he was an absolute beast of a player. Powerful, clever, skilful. I do love Pele Cowley too: a small and old-fashionned scrum-half : a remnant of past times...


My bad : Mo Schwalger is not at all Samoa's head coach. Samoa to have a very tough day against us... :D
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Re: Scotland - Samoa

Postby The Feral Goat on Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:27 pm

Commentary saying Nel broken arm....SteveWalsh
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Re: Scotland - Samoa

Postby dolf_lundgren on Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:46 pm

Ffs, just bad luck.

Hopefully it is not a bad one, he should be drinking as ,jcb mil as he can and back on a fortnight! Ok just wishful thinking.
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Re: Scotland - Samoa

Postby Frenchy on Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:57 pm

Turner on for a well deserved debut.

I'll never tire of watching Hamish Watson play rugby.
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Re: Scotland - Samoa

Postby The Feral Goat on Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:22 pm

Not sure what to make of this. A win lots of tries scores but yuk.

Lots of errors no individual had a particularly good or bad game.

Defence poor more so after the disruption of subs.

Lot to improve before NZ, with a similar error count we will be in huge bother next week.
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Re: Scotland - Samoa

Postby dolf_lundgren on Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:25 pm

Not a good performance, defensively very poor.

Ironic after GT saying we will play the fastest game in the world we won through mauls and discipline.

A win though, need to step up hugely if we even want to keep the abs under 50.
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Re: Scotland - Samoa

Postby gowrie on Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:34 pm

Horrific performance, utterly dreadful. How can you take two of the top defences in the league and produce that shambles?

Hamish Watson was good, Marfo had a solid performance, McInally was accurate in the setpiece. Lee Jones was good too. That about sums up the positives.

New Zealand would have put 100 on that team, and Australia wouldn't be far behind, so long as they can master the dazzling Samoan tactical ingenuity of running in a straight line and expecting Scots to miss basic tackles.
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