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Re: Scotland - Samoa

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:47 pm
by dolf_lundgren
i thnk there was a general lack of intensity throughout the game. The team as a whole didn't seem on it. Whether that will change next week remains ot be seen but it will have to if we are going to avoid a kicking.

Re: Scotland - Samoa

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:23 pm
by Weegie
Crichton Gunner wrote:Entertaining game, and great credit to Samoa for coming back so well. Not a great performance from Scotland, defensively poor and despite fielding an entire Weeg backline I didn't think they played that we'll together. I don't often go to Scotland games, and the tedious Mexican waves and sight of people streaming for the exits with 5 minutes to go and the game still in the balance reminded me why. Why do they bother coming? I know I'm becoming a grumpy old man, but the dismal Mexican waves really p*ss me off, and make me yearn to be back in the Library at Myreside.


Lots of tries, lots of mistakes. I can't remember when I last missed a game at Murrayfield, but I never got into this as a spectacle.

I had just finished saying to my son that it was a strangely dull game and we'd see Mexican waves soon, and then they started. We have had a lot of these in the past because what has been on the pitch has failed to engage the crowd. If the team is losing all the time, it is hardly surprising the crowd has entertained itself in other ways. For a lot of people, this has now become part of the Murrayfield experience. I don't think we saw them in the Irish and Welsh games which were tense and exciting.

The crowds for the Autumn internationals have far higher percentages of home supporters than the 6N games. Some will not be dedicated supporters, and it was very noticeable where I was that a lot more than usual families with kids and older people were leaving early to beat the crowds. That said, there were a lot of fit youngsters also going early, but they were possibly not hard core fans and were just there to experience a game at Murrayfield, and why not?

Re: Scotland - Samoa

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:06 pm
by GaryIPA
dolf_lundgren wrote:
GaryIPA wrote:
Crichton Gunner wrote:Entertaining game, and great credit to Samoa for coming back so well. Not a great performance from Scotland, defensively poor and despite fielding an entire Weeg backline I didn't think they played that we'll together. I don't often go to Scotland games, and the tedious Mexican waves and sight of people streaming for the exits with 5 minutes to go and the game still in the balance reminded me why. Why do they bother coming? I know I'm becoming a grumpy old man, but the dismal Mexican waves really p*ss me off, and make me yearn to be back in the Library at Myreside.



Too many rugby tourists I’m afraid. 8k at Glasgow games 4K at Edinburgh. 50 k left. Half that for geographical/appropriate reasons. What’re do the other 25 k appear from?


Would it be possible to supply a list of the "appropriate reasons" that would allow me or anyone lese to attend Murrayfield?

Seriously the snobbery around this is unreal, people are quite entitled to go to the game if they wish. They are also allowed to go to the toilet when they need to. Different people find enjoyment in different ways, for many watching the rugby while chatting with their friend and having a beer is that. It is not just for those who want to fully immerse themselves in the game and concentrate fully on it. Sharing and discussing what you are seeing is all part of live sport.

There seems to be a sense of real ownership and that if you don't attend myrside or Sctotoun then you are not entitled to go. Similarly if you must attend there are a list of requirements, such as not taking part in Mexican waves, not drinking beer, going to the toilet, being on your phone or talking during the game. Oh and you must create an atmosephere!

This is not specifically aimed at you Gary, it is all over the weedgie board too.


Nice to see I’m not being singled out lol The atmosphere yesterday wasn’t great but it rarely is.

The point I’m looking to makes the interest is there because we had 60k plus there yesterday but it doesn’t seem to trickle down to, mainly, Edinburgh or I believe club sides. So why are these people attending internationals but not going to see other rugby. Hence the reason I’ve used the term rugby tourists as you get football tourist.

It’s great we’ve moved on from the 11k that watched Argentina in 99 to the numbers yesterday.

I have no problem with the wave. I just don’t join in booooooo.

We might take a beer to our seats pre match but rarely get another. We’re there to watch rugby. If we want a drink we go to a pub.

Likewise I have no problem with folk chatting away probably getting an opportunity to catch up with mates. Nothing wrong with that.

I don’t leave early. Especially when a result is in the balance.

Another poster said he was disappointed with aspects of the crowd all I did was try to explain it’s probably reflected by the fact there was a large number there yesterday who perhaps rarely go to games.

The bottom line is if you’ve paid for you ticket it’s up to you (within reason) to do what you want

Re: Scotland - Samoa

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:30 pm
by borderflanker
Interesting game from the point of view that we were going to try to play a game played at a high tempo, yet we were static taking the ball on , sometimes as in Russells case one man or 3 man pods of slow ruck ball.
In contrast the Samoans came onto the ball from depth & with pace got over the gain line virtually every time putting them on the front footfor quick ball.
Our ruck defence at guard shield and A were ok but they exploited the fact we had nobody standing in the weakest point of attack which was where the tackle originated, surely we should have at some one directing the ruck defence from directly behind who would act as the sweeper.

Re: Scotland - Samoa

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:12 pm
by Martin Bell
GaryIPA wrote:
dolf_lundgren wrote:
GaryIPA wrote:

Too many rugby tourists I’m afraid. 8k at Glasgow games 4K at Edinburgh. 50 k left. Half that for geographical/appropriate reasons. What’re do the other 25 k appear from?


Would it be possible to supply a list of the "appropriate reasons" that would allow me or anyone lese to attend Murrayfield?

Seriously the snobbery around this is unreal, people are quite entitled to go to the game if they wish. They are also allowed to go to the toilet when they need to. Different people find enjoyment in different ways, for many watching the rugby while chatting with their friend and having a beer is that. It is not just for those who want to fully immerse themselves in the game and concentrate fully on it. Sharing and discussing what you are seeing is all part of live sport.

There seems to be a sense of real ownership and that if you don't attend myrside or Sctotoun then you are not entitled to go. Similarly if you must attend there are a list of requirements, such as not taking part in Mexican waves, not drinking beer, going to the toilet, being on your phone or talking during the game. Oh and you must create an atmosephere!

This is not specifically aimed at you Gary, it is all over the weedgie board too.


Nice to see I’m not being singled out lol The atmosphere yesterday wasn’t great but it rarely is.

The point I’m looking to makes the interest is there because we had 60k plus there yesterday but it doesn’t seem to trickle down to, mainly, Edinburgh or I believe club sides. So why are these people attending internationals but not going to see other rugby. Hence the reason I’ve used the term rugby tourists as you get football tourist.

It’s great we’ve moved on from the 11k that watched Argentina in 99 to the numbers yesterday.

I have no problem with the wave. I just don’t join in booooooo.

We might take a beer to our seats pre match but rarely get another. We’re there to watch rugby. If we want a drink we go to a pub.

Likewise I have no problem with folk chatting away probably getting an opportunity to catch up with mates. Nothing wrong with that.

I don’t leave early. Especially when a result is in the balance.

Another poster said he was disappointed with aspects of the crowd all I did was try to explain it’s probably reflected by the fact there was a large number there yesterday who perhaps rarely go to games.

The bottom line is if you’ve paid for you ticket it’s up to you (within reason) to do what you want


While I'm not a huge fan of the same individual(s) constantly getting up and down for more beers during particularly gripping periods of play at BTM, I've put that mild irritation down to my getting old. But I think Gary's got to the crux of the issue here, which is that here are clearly many people out there who could potentially become regulars at pro or club games but don't, for whatever reason. During the McKie era, the SRU's approach to relatively low crowds for the Borders, in particular, seemed to be to try to make people feel guilty for not turning up. That seemed like a fairly Calvinistic approach to advertising and unlikely to be particularly successful.

Working out how to get more of these people to turn out at non-international games during the year by making the positive case to them is surely the task here. I think myself that we're getting there - the mere fact that there were so many at BTM yesterday is a sign of that, no matter what promotional blandishments were directed at them. Folk seem to like entertaining, often winning, rugby. Who knew?

Re: Scotland - Samoa

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:02 pm
by GaryIPA
Yes Martin. We had 2 spare tickets One was available because there spouse was working the other has been sent away with work. We sold the tickets to a couple from fife who had just come over for the day and thought they’d see if they could pick up tickets. They went for drinks/food they left early. They seemed to have a good time but in years past they probably wouldn’t have looked to come to the game

Re: Scotland - Samoa

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:12 am
by Tichtheid
I think there is more interest just now because Vern made us competitive and Toonie carried that on during the summer, Fiji game apart. GT will have an extended honeymoon period due to his success at Glasgow and the severity of the next two fixtures.

As to where are all the spectators on a Friday night, there will of course be few able/willing to travel from outside the city, but if Edinburgh results continue to perk up I think we'll see it reflected in attendances, especially if Edinburgh continue to play like in the Os game.

Re: Scotland - Samoa

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:46 am
by The Feral Goat
Nel fracture confirmed, Swinson and Harley also out of series.

Re: Scotland - Samoa

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:28 pm
by biffer
The Feral Goat wrote:Nel fracture confirmed, Swinson and Harley also out of series.


So is McCallum next cab off the prop line?

Re: Scotland - Samoa

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:35 pm
by biffer
biffer wrote:
The Feral Goat wrote:Nel fracture confirmed, Swinson and Harley also out of series.


So is McCallum next cab off the prop line?


Welsh called up

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/41968447

Re: Scotland - Samoa

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:42 pm
by The Feral Goat
With Swinson and Harley injured is that maybe Ritchie (or Bradbury) and Gilchrist less likely to be released for ERs SA trip now.

Re: Scotland - Samoa

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:59 pm
by Friday Knight Lights
BigD163 wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote:Is it Matt Taylors fault that the players were losing individual contacts?

I thought the issue was a total lack of intensity. Russell missing touch early doors summed it up.

I didn't feel I saw 100% from most players today.


Taylor is responsible for the systems though. We are often too passive and welcome pressure under his direction. This is not a new thing. The Welsh and Irish 6N games are a prime example too.


I disagree vs Ireland when the defence was outstanding for 50 minutes then just tired from the intensity and number of tackles made. I don't remember it being poor vs Wales either.

Re: Scotland - Samoa

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:36 pm
by BigD163
Friday Knight Lights wrote:
BigD163 wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote:Is it Matt Taylors fault that the players were losing individual contacts?

I thought the issue was a total lack of intensity. Russell missing touch early doors summed it up.

I didn't feel I saw 100% from most players today.


Taylor is responsible for the systems though. We are often too passive and welcome pressure under his direction. This is not a new thing. The Welsh and Irish 6N games are a prime example too.


I disagree vs Ireland when the defence was outstanding for 50 minutes then just tired from the intensity and number of tackles made. I don't remember it being poor vs Wales either.


The defence held on in that Ireland game, just. I am sure there were 30+ missed tackles which is poor no matter how many tackles are being made, but they still gave up a hell of a lot of easy ground. Against Wales we won the possession battle comfortably but still at times struggled defensively (great last gasp tackle by Visser, some key turnovers in our own half). But the worrying thing for me about the defensive system is how easily it gives up ground and then relies on not breaking in the red zone (or giving away penalties). Against the better 6N teams we give away a lot of metres easily to the opposition and it has lead to giving up a lot of points in Taylors time as D coach.

Very rarely do you see a Scotland team press up as one line often when there is a tackle behind the gain line its because one or two players have done it themselves (Toolis at the weekend). That may be part of the defensive strategy but the overall strategy doesn't work well enough regularly enough.

Re: Scotland - Samoa

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:18 pm
by New Gunner
On a brighter note, just watching the game back. For Scotland's last try, CDP gathers the high clearance on the wing, floats a long pass to Hogg and wraps around to first receiver in time for the ruck recycle. He then takes the ball and delivers a one handed no-look inside scoop out of the tackle straight to Horne, carving the defence open in an instant. Great line by Horne, but Cornell Du Perez is the real deal. Must start on Saturday, and then sign a new Embra deal on Sunday.

Re: Scotland - Samoa

PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:34 am
by Wottie
New Gunner wrote:On a brighter note, just watching the game back. For Scotland's last try, CDP gathers the high clearance on the wing, floats a long pass to Hogg and wraps around to first receiver in time for the ruck recycle. He then takes the ball and delivers a one handed no-look inside scoop out of the tackle straight to Horne, carving the defence open in an instant. Great line by Horne, but Cornell Du Perez is the real deal. Must start on Saturday, and then sign a new Embra deal on Sunday.


CDP will definitely start Saturday. Hope he has a blinder!