EDI v Scarlets – Fri 2nd Nov 1935 KO

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Re: EDI v Scarlets – Fri 2nd Nov 1935 KO

Postby Weegie on Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:00 am

Wottie wrote:So after our 1st proper look at Ally Miller have we got ourselves our very own Richie Vernon? Looks to have proper gas for a big guy and his line out work was perfect bar one he let slip through his hands at the end of the game. Be good to see a bit more of him but that was a pretty impressive debut.


I have just seen Cockerill's after match interview. He was pretty blunt about having sent Miller to the Sevens because he did not think he was good enough. He admitted he may have been wrong after that, but I wonder if its enough to get Miller more game time.
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Re: EDI v Scarlets – Fri 2nd Nov 1935 KO

Postby Tichtheid on Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:35 am

Weegie wrote:
Wottie wrote:So after our 1st proper look at Ally Miller have we got ourselves our very own Richie Vernon? Looks to have proper gas for a big guy and his line out work was perfect bar one he let slip through his hands at the end of the game. Be good to see a bit more of him but that was a pretty impressive debut.


I have just seen Cockerill's after match interview. He was pretty blunt about having sent Miller to the Sevens because he did not think he was good enough. He admitted he may have been wrong after that, but I wonder if its enough to get Miller more game time.



Edinburgh’s next game is away to the Dragons on the 25th, Scotland play on the 24th, as do Fiji, I think we’ll need Miller for the Dragons game and probably for the Munster game the following week too
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Re: EDI v Scarlets – Fri 2nd Nov 1935 KO

Postby liveinhope on Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:30 am

Assuming Fiji use Mata over the next three weekends I imagine it would be prudent to allow him a rest for the Munster match before the Newcastle and Glasgow double-headers to follow.
The Dragons match will depend on Scotland requirements for Argentina but at least being 5.30 on the Sunday not impossible that any subs or reserves could travel down the next morning-so the likes of Ritchie or Hamilton (and possibly Macallum) could be in the balnce.Certainly will need Miller and Wynne to stick around and even then very short without Mata. Equally don't expect many of those featuring in November tests to play in Munster-most likely to be rested if they've played in 3/4 matches,possible exceptions could Scott/ Ritchie/Toolis/Macallum?
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Re: EDI v Scarlets – Fri 2nd Nov 1935 KO

Postby dolf_lundgren on Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:22 pm

Mainly due to the disruption to the team but it did look like Schoeman, Hamilton and Mata were doing a serious amount of work. We need to be careful not to wreck them by giving them too much punishment. I understand what Cockers is saying that Mata doesnt hit rucks etc but Hamilton and Schoeman definatley do and work hard continuously. At least they have a break now though.

Schoeman has been the signing of the season for us so far. Its not a good thing, but the break he got through suspension has worked well for us and allowed him to still be fresh.

We still need to be more clinical in attack though, we spurned a few chances and it gave Scarlets belief.

One other point was the crowd getting on Pyrgos's back for being too slow. He is playing to a gameplan and it was working. We were light on the bench and slowing things down a bit did no harm. Also box kicking was bringing us joy but you need to have the blockers in place and the chaser aware or it wont work. I just feel like laidlaw he is undervalued. It is not all about flashy plays, sometimes it needs the pace taken out of it and a cool head.
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Re: EDI v Scarlets – Fri 2nd Nov 1935 KO

Postby liveinhope on Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:03 pm

Well Schoemann was just back after a for week (suspension) break and will now get another one till the Dragons match.As I posted earlier Mata will be seriously overplayed come the end of this month assuming he plays in all the Fiji matches so certainly be worth a break for the Munster game. Hamilton has been a real plus after Bradbury's injury and surprising he's not been added to the Scotland squad given all the back row injuries (Ashe and Strauss added instead.) That means he can get a break until the Dragons game where he'll be absolutely vital given Mata will definitely be missing and unless,say, Ritchie gets released we'll be relying on three rookies (Miller,Wynne and ? ) to fill the other two positions plus one sub.
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Re: EDI v Scarlets – Fri 2nd Nov 1935 KO

Postby biffer on Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:04 pm

liveinhope wrote:Assuming Fiji use Mata over the next three weekends I imagine it would be prudent to allow him a rest for the Munster match before the Newcastle and Glasgow double-headers to follow.
The Dragons match will depend on Scotland requirements for Argentina but at least being 5.30 on the Sunday not impossible that any subs or reserves could travel down the next morning-so the likes of Ritchie or Hamilton (and possibly Macallum) could be in the balnce.Certainly will need Miller and Wynne to stick around and even then very short without Mata. Equally don't expect many of those featuring in November tests to play in Munster-most likely to be rested if they've played in 3/4 matches,possible exceptions could Scott/ Ritchie/Toolis/Macallum?


Given the Argentina game kicks off at 1430, I'd expect unused reserves to be on a plane that afternoon. There's a half four flight to Birmingham, hour or two on the train from there.
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Re: EDI v Scarlets – Fri 2nd Nov 1935 KO

Postby Wottie on Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:36 pm

dolf_lundgren wrote:One other point was the crowd getting on Pyrgos's back for being too slow. He is playing to a gameplan and it was working. We were light on the bench and slowing things down a bit did no harm. Also box kicking was bringing us joy but you need to have the blockers in place and the chaser aware or it wont work. I just feel like laidlaw he is undervalued. It is not all about flashy plays, sometimes it needs the pace taken out of it and a cool head.


Spot on Dolf. I've been like a broken record this season arguing with people complaining that Pyrgos is slow. He wasn't slow at Glasgow and is clearly playing to plan. Like Scotland on Saturday we have been guilty of allowing our ball to be slowed at the breakdown this season and once that has happened, you may as well take your time and/or box kick as the advantage and benefit has been lost. We don't know how lucky we are to have a scrum half of his experience and quality in the team and you need only look at the minutes he is being played to know that the management team think likewise.
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Re: EDI v Scarlets – Fri 2nd Nov 1935 KO

Postby TheSmidge on Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:39 pm

liveinhope wrote:Well Schoemann was just back after a for week (suspension) break and will now get another one till the Dragons match.As I posted earlier Mata will be seriously overplayed come the end of this month assuming he plays in all the Fiji matches so certainly be worth a break for the Munster game. Hamilton has been a real plus after Bradbury's injury and surprising he's not been added to the Scotland squad given all the back row injuries (Ashe and Strauss added instead.) That means he can get a break until the Dragons game where he'll be absolutely vital given Mata will definitely be missing and unless,say, Ritchie gets released we'll be relying on three rookies (Miller,Wynne and ? ) to fill the other two positions plus one sub.


I thought Hamilton was with the squad? He's not mentioned today, but had been talked about before. He was just released back to us for the last two games.
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Re: EDI v Scarlets – Fri 2nd Nov 1935 KO

Postby Tichtheid on Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:40 pm

I haven't watched the game again yet, but one of the things that occurred to me on Friday was that we had eight forwards (plus the guys who came on) all carrying well and putting pace on the ball, even within the highly structured game plan
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Re: EDI v Scarlets – Fri 2nd Nov 1935 KO

Postby Wottie on Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:08 pm

TheSmidge wrote:I thought Hamilton was with the squad? He's not mentioned today, but had been talked about before. He was just released back to us for the last two games.


No, he was omitted from the initial squad and wasn't added after the injury to Bradbury, which surprised me. Other than the opener against Ospreys, I think he has played consistently well this season and may have given us a bit more go forward with ball in hand on Saturday than Ritchie or Wilson. Guess it's what Strauss has been brought in to do but I question his stomach for it at International level based on past experience. Anyway, it's our gain whilst resources are stretched for the Dragons game.
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Re: EDI v Scarlets – Fri 2nd Nov 1935 KO

Postby The Feral Goat on Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:08 pm

Tichtheid wrote:I haven't watched the game again yet, but one of the things that occurred to me on Friday was that we had eight forwards (plus the guys who came on) all carrying well and putting pace on the ball, even within the highly structured game plan


Agree and the Stats (ESPN) reflect that, notably

CHH 6 carries for 24m
Hamilton 20 for 28m
Miller 3 for 12m
Schoeman 13 for 17m
Mata 25 for 82m

Scarlets whole pack 46 carriers for 21m

Re DLs point on Pyrgos - I thought Friday highlighted the value of Pyrgos v SHC, where SHC did the odd good thing Pyrgos controlled the match well throughout the quality of box kicking between the two was not even a contest. There has been the odd occasion off turnover ball or a half break where he has slowed things up when perhaps through the hands would have gained ground, which is a bit frustrating, but overall a key addition this season.
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Re: EDI v Scarlets – Fri 2nd Nov 1935 KO

Postby Tichtheid on Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:08 pm

The Feral Goat wrote:
Tichtheid wrote:I haven't watched the game again yet, but one of the things that occurred to me on Friday was that we had eight forwards (plus the guys who came on) all carrying well and putting pace on the ball, even within the highly structured game plan


Agree and the Stats (ESPN) reflect that, notably

CHH 6 carries for 24m
Hamilton 20 for 28m
Miller 3 for 12m
Schoeman 13 for 17m
Mata 25 for 82m

Scarlets whole pack 46 carriers for 21m



To add to that,
Ford, 10 carries 8m
McCallum 8 for 8
Hodgson 10 for 3
Miller 3 for 12
and Cherry, Sutherland and Ceccarelli all carried

These might not look so impressive on paper but often they are the hardest of yards, the carries around the base of the ruck into two or three defenders, which all add to the softening of defenders' shoulders and tiring of defending legs as they are met with a relentless onslaught - 12 forwards all carrying the ball, the guys on duty for Scotland and the guys on the physio's table are all effective carriers too
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Re: EDI v Scarlets – Fri 2nd Nov 1935 KO

Postby The Feral Goat on Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:45 pm

Also nick lumley tweeted that in making 'that' tackle Ford recorded highest vmax of the ER players in the match.
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Re: EDI v Scarlets – Fri 2nd Nov 1935 KO

Postby liveinhope on Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:23 pm

Having attended the squad training session this afternoon (open to the Supporters Club) I can confirm Hamilton was not with the squad.
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