Agen Saturday 18 January

[joe soap]

[quote="joe soap"

I suppose the happy clappy view is job done, Lineout was SteveWalsh last week, need Gilco and big Ben, this week another excuse.
that win was always there for the taking against the poorest least interested team in France. Cockerill put out a very strong team, and learned zilch - unless of course we count leaning that first picks in the main did not step up again for bread and butter stuff. Mental failing, again.

Of course put out a few more players dying for a chance to prove a point either gives same outcome or we learn they ain't up to scratch. In a meaningless competition.
Instead Cockerill risked injuries and missed opportunity, He might be a very good forwards coach, Maybe be even a head coach. But he lacks a wider vision is a SteveWalsh Director of Rugby- and for Edinburgh he is both

I don't think you can call comfortably getting the job done a mental failing. It was just boring.

I think he has a vision, he turned the club around and continues that process slowly. The club is clearly a hard nosed proposition. He's playing a more expansive rugby. It really is very disappointing that he isn't giving young players enough of a shot. I really think Shiel and a few others could've injected some energy and enthusiasm into that performance.[/quote]

if you think that being unable to motivate players who should be considered and considering themselves as first team squad to perform is acceptable, fair play to you but I think that's jamesmatthew.
A different coach might have played more fringe players, mainly those who we think will step up given the chance. Told them it was their chance. Told he older guys he would pick on form and the youngsters were being given a chance to take their places. Made it obvious their was real competition for places. Instead we got his Leicester approach, minimal rotation outside his "favourites"
This was never ever going to be a result in doubt with that team or anything close as if it mattered more than prepping for the league anyway. We learned zilch. On your terms we leaned that Cockerill is a hard nosed DavePearson for whom a short term vanity win (a BP win) figured above developing players and making a challenge for the league. I honestly cannot see that as vision, and I can foretell the whinge when he pleads inexperience late in the season.
Edinburgh are playing a more expansive game much against his instinct. He will revert at the first opportunity to blame the attacking instincts. Just as he failed to adapt at Leicester

[dolf_lundgren]

Aye you re right Joe, Cockers is everything that is wrong with Edinburgh.

A BP win did make a difference to ensure we qualified and a higher ranking should get a better qf but we have little control over that.

To compare the rotation this year over last year is just laughable, arguably only Schoeman and Kinghorn are a stretch ahead of the second cHoice, mainly due to the rotation we have seen.
You want to pick on form, which young players in particular are screaming for game time and making a case? I’d argue only really Sutherland.

But you are right, Cockers oot.

[The Nudger]

Aye, the way Edinburgh's gone backwards the last 3 years is shocking! I'd like to see Mike Bradley back, I loved all those thrilling 35-30 defeats!

[Friday Knight Lights]

if you think that being unable to motivate players who should be considered and considering themselves as first team squad to perform is acceptable, fair play to you but I think that's jamesmatthew.
A different coach might have played more fringe players, mainly those who we think will step up given the chance. Told them it was their chance. Told he older guys he would pick on form and the youngsters were being given a chance to take their places. Made it obvious their was real competition for places. Instead we got his Leicester approach, minimal rotation outside his "favourites"
This was never ever going to be a result in doubt with that team or anything close as if it mattered more than prepping for the league anyway. We learned zilch. On your terms we leaned that Cockerill is a hard nosed DavePearson for whom a short term vanity win (a BP win) figured above developing players and making a challenge for the league. I honestly cannot see that as vision, and I can foretell the whinge when he pleads inexperience late in the season.
Edinburgh are playing a more expansive game much against his instinct. He will revert at the first opportunity to blame the attacking instincts. Just as he failed to adapt at Leicester

Aye let's look at Leicester and all they've achieved with him gone.

I'm as disappointed as you are that he didn't look to use the challenge cup to develop players. We've not used the tournament to develop and we haven't done a great job of winning the pool and a clear run to the finals.

I think it's short sighted not playing young players too. It's not like Groom and Pyrgos are excellent 9s and Mel/Berghan/Ceccerelli aren't always available or hugely impressive.

I'd rather have Cockers than any other coach apart from an unrealistic pipedream of Scott Robertson but also he has areas to learn.

[doedin]

Sorry guys but not getting the negativity! We are sitting top of our conference with a point difference second to only Leinster. We have qualified for the next round of Euro Diddy cup and given a few hiccups in our home game v Bordeaux (top of the French 14) could have been top. We have more players in Scottish squad than the Weegies for first time in yonks. We can rotate team each week with 7-8 changes and still argue it is stronger than the previous weeks one. I am at a loss to know what the AlainRolland the problem is!

Whilst we may disagree with some of the squad rotations, I too think Shiel should be getting more game time, I am in no way going to argue about the big picture or the turnaround that Cockers has achieved since he has been here. Have we forgotten the dark days of Bradley and Solomons and the likes of Blauuw, Reece, Yaap, Bezudenhiot, Strauss ... need I go on. Cockers has been pretty ruthless and has turned around the squad completely. He has done well with most of the guys he has brought in to the team, who thought Haining would be so good, and he has managed others well, who thought Hickey would mature as much over the past 18 months? We are now arguing about who we want to play in the team, I remember the days when that would have been a struggle and we would have spent more time arguing about who should have been jettisoned, given the amount of dross and incompetence we had in the squad.

There will be bumps in the road, there will be mistakes at times but its fair to say that we now have a pretty competitive squad and we grind out results in most games. OK some of the performances may be more workman like than I would like but I remember the times when any win, however achieved, would have been gratefully received. I will respect Cockers judgement about the squad as a whole, the players and what he thinks we need to do in order to achieve results. I suspect he has a season long plan for the whole squad and we perhaps need to review our views com the end of the season. However he hasn't done too bad to date!

[Tichtheid]

Who are you and what have you done with doedin?

I wonder if disco has spreadsheets for Edinburgh? It would be interesting to see how many players have been used this season and how many games each have played.

Schoey will have played a lot, but the likes of Gilcho will only have appeared in about half of the matches so far, I reckon. There have been 10 league and 6 cup games - in fact I paused this post to have a look on itsrugby, Gilcho has played in 5 league games with 4 starts and he has started all 4 of his cup appearances.
Schoey has played in 10 league games, started 8, 4 cup games, starting 3 - he's probably due a rest but he has two weeks off now.
Nel has played 2, started 2 in each.

I could take the long route and do this for every player in the squad, but if disco already has the info it would be handy.

edit, Murray McCallum has made 4 league appearances and 1 cup appearance off the bench.

[disco]

Who are you and what have you done with doedin?

I wonder if disco has spreadsheets for Edinburgh? It would be interesting to see how many players have been used this season and how many games each have played.

Schoey will have played a lot, but the likes of Gilcho will only have appeared in about half of the matches so far, I reckon. There have been 10 league and 6 cup games - in fact I paused this post to have a look on itsrugby, Gilcho has played in 5 league games with 4 starts and he has started all 4 of his cup appearances.
Schoey has played in 10 league games, started 8, 4 cup games, starting 3 - he's probably due a rest but he has two weeks off now.
Nel has played 2, started 2 in each.

I could take the long route and do this for every player in the squad, but if disco already has the info it would be handy.

edit, Murray McCallum has made 4 league appearances and 1 cup appearance off the bench.

Does Owen Farrell tackle with no arms?

Edinburgh forwards (27):

Edi fwds.PNG (42.23 KiB) Viewed 6721 times

Edinburgh backs (19):

Edi backs.PNG (30.7 KiB) Viewed 6721 times

The third column under ALL COMPS is for unused subs and is not included in total appearances.

For comparison, Glasgow have used 26 forwards and 22 backs.

[Crichton Gunner]

I'm with Doedin on this one, I really don't get what this outbreak of whinging about Cockers is about. So he should have used this competition to rotate more players, and he should also have ensured we topped our group? What are people drinking? We were in a group with 2 French and one English side, and Bordeaux who are top of their league have fielded strong sides. If we'd used this competition to field a lot of youngsters we would not have qualified, be realistic. And in fairness to Cockers, he has rotated the squad a lot this season. The whinging seems to be mostly about Shiel, and I'd like to see more of him too. But I'm prepared to admit Cockers knows more about his readiness than I do, and he may have other reasons for giving Groom more game time.

[Ayton1keith]

Shiel is still learning his trade and yes he does have a few issues but hopefully these will be addressed. When he has played, he has brought an injection of pace to the game and I agree that he has a great pass of both hands. But please remember the clamour 18-24 months ago about a certain Darcy Graham not getting enough game time ...................................and look how that turned out

[The Chiel]

Shiel is still learning his trade and yes he does have a few issues but hopefully these will be addressed. When he has played, he has brought an injection of pace to the game and I agree that he has a great pass of both hands. But please remember the clamour 18-24 months ago about a certain Darcy Graham not getting enough game time ...................................and look how that turned out

Shiel to the 7s might not be a bad move. Certainly worked for Graham & Horne.

[Tichtheid]

Thanks disco, that’s really helpful.

From those numbers, Schoeman is the only one close to being “overplayed”, backs don’t suffer anything like the attrition that forwards do, so I don’t count vdM as having played too much. Perhaps scrum halfs can be overplayed but they run further than anyone else on the park, it’s a highly demanding position in terms of stamina.

I’d like to see more of Shiel and Sutherland, but in Rory’s case there have been injuries this season on top of everything else and I think there is case to be made that he is being carefully managed back to full fitness.

I’m quite happy with how the players are being played overall, everyone in the squad has had game time, I think winning is the most important thing and if Ceccerelli gives us a better chance of doing that than McCallum then it is what it is, and it’s up to McCallum and the likes of Charlie Shiel at training to convince the selectors that they are the guys who deserve to start.

Graham, vdM, Kinghorn, Hoyland, Sau, Farndale, Bennett, JJ, Scott and Taylor are all playing and scoring tries, by the way, I thought Chris Dean looked very sharp on his return at the weekend, it was great to see him cutting through the defence, there are tougher games to come but our midfield and back three squad is more than decent now.

[doedin]

Who are you and what have you done with doedin?

I wonder if disco has spreadsheets for Edinburgh? It would be interesting to see how many players have been used this season and how many games each have played.

Schoey will have played a lot, but the likes of Gilcho will only have appeared in about half of the matches so far, I reckon. There have been 10 league and 6 cup games - in fact I paused this post to have a look on itsrugby, Gilcho has played in 5 league games with 4 starts and he has started all 4 of his cup appearances.
Schoey has played in 10 league games, started 8, 4 cup games, starting 3 - he's probably due a rest but he has two weeks off now.
Nel has played 2, started 2 in each.

I could take the long route and do this for every player in the squad, but if disco already has the info it would be handy.

edit, Murray McCallum has made 4 league appearances and 1 cup appearance off the bench.

Dry January! Ill be back to normal in February.

[dolf_lundgren]

Thank got for that, I thought it must be some sort of inverse Blue Monday thing!

[joe soap]

Aye you re right Joe, Cockers is everything that is wrong with Edinburgh.

A BP win did make a difference to ensure we qualified and a higher ranking should get a better qf but we have little control over that.

To compare the rotation this year over last year is just laughable, arguably only Schoeman and Kinghorn are a stretch ahead of the second cHoice, mainly due to the rotation we have seen.
You want to pick on form, which young players in particular are screaming for game time and making a case? I’d argue only really Sutherland.

But you are right, Cockers oot.

ah, if only I had said he was everything that was wrong, or that he should go. If only I had said that things are not markedly and significantly better than for not just 3 years but a decade.

But I didn't so you made it up. Then sat on the complacency that will not tolerate criticism. Nothing wrong, no room for improvement. Well done.

And you and a few others failing to recognise that this competition is fairly pointless, it should be used as a development opportunity until the play-off stages if and when reached.
The real priority, the league, has a rest this week, then the 6N. Edinburgh will need to play players who have not played in how many weeks?
This was a missed opportunity to rotate more, give fringe players who will be needed game time - and still nab a BP win against jamesmatthew opposition. And every game is an injury risk, why risk so many front liners for no reward?
I'll stick to my opinion of Cockerill, technically he is a good coach, beyond that he has his limitations

[Tichtheid]

From the team that started on Saturday only Darcy and Nel will definitely not be available to Edinburgh over the 6N period, the likelihood is that Toolis and Gilchrist will also be away and maybe Ceccerelli.

Sau will come in for DG with a little drop off but not like in years gone by. Carmichael and Fraz will fill in at lock, with Hodgson, Thompson or Douglas taking the bench spot.

We are lucky with our depth in the backrow, I think we’ll probably get either Crosbie or Haining back, perhaps both and we have Big Bill, Kunavula, Barclay and possibly Miller to add to them.

We’ve got Scarlets away, they have a fair few in the Wales set up, Connacht at home then Cardiff away, they have an injury crisis in the backs.

The two trip tour to South Africa comes up after that, all teams have three weeks off before that though.