Saracens -11th December 3.15pm

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Re: Saracens -11th December 3.15pm

Postby Pitfitter446 on Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:18 pm

It would be nice to see how we compare to the Sarries in an arm wrestle, a good indicator of our progress this year, if we’re only going to turn up to make up the numbers and fulfill the obligation why bother, give Sarries the win and move on.
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Re: Saracens -11th December 3.15pm

Postby BigD163 on Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:23 pm

liveinhope wrote:I tend to agree with BIgD163 that ultimately the Challenge Cup games don't matter and only the URC games do -and that is the route to next year's Champions Cup of course.
But Saracens away is a terrific challenge and it would be tremendous to put down a good performance there (Glasgow were pretty poor in both there matches against them in the last 2/3 years). recent selections have shown that we appear to have much more serious competition for the 23 than in recent years so Blair should be able to mix and match a bit without weakening the line up. Injuries to Mata and Hoyland don't help but we have excellent cover for them in Bradbury/Haining and Moyana.And we have the following weekend off whilst Glasgow will be hosting Exeter so the need for "cottonwooling" some players is not as necessary.


With Mata being potentially injured for the medium term why risk Bradbury when for club and player the Glasgow games are probably bigger. On this seasons showing Bradbury is better than Haining. Saracens unlikely to go full noise and Bradbury will have a chance to face up against two competitors (come AI's 2022) for the national 8 shirt against Glasgow. The way the conferences are set up, win both games and the gap is massive going into the second half of the season. If the URC decide to do something daft like void the SA team results because they can't complete the season then the gap increases by another 3 points.

A team of say: Venter, Rambo, Atalifo, Sykes, GG, Ritchie, Boyle, Kunavula, Pyrgos, VdW, Blain (if fit), Dean, Bennett, Moyano and Immelman (if fit) with subs of McBurney, Schoeman, de Bruin, Phillips, Haining, Shiel, Savala and Currie would be fine.

I don't think holding out Nel, Bradbury, Kinghorn (if there is any doubt), Lang (given he's had knocks) and Boffelli (given he has played through the summer, into AIs and then played the last two weeks) would be that big an issue.
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Re: Saracens -11th December 3.15pm

Postby dolf_lundgren on Wed Dec 08, 2021 3:47 pm

It does leave us with quite an impotent looking backline though, very little spark in there other than Bennet.

Not an easy one, but I think momentum is important and taking a tanking from Sarries wont help. Caveat that with we could go all out against them and still take a tanking.

Glasgow got a doing from them, not becuase they played badly, but they werent allowed to play at all.
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Re: Saracens -11th December 3.15pm

Postby The Feral Goat on Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:22 pm

Hoyland and Mata both out for "considerable time" with knee injuries.

Both been in good form but a real blow for Hoyland in particular after his run of injuries.
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Re: Saracens -11th December 3.15pm

Postby TheSmidge on Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:26 pm

BigD163 wrote:With Mata being potentially injured for the medium term why risk Bradbury when for club and player the Glasgow games are probably bigger. On this seasons showing Bradbury is better than Haining. Saracens unlikely to go full noise and Bradbury will have a chance to face up against two competitors (come AI's 2022) for the national 8 shirt against Glasgow. The way the conferences are set up, win both games and the gap is massive going into the second half of the season. If the URC decide to do something daft like void the SA team results because they can't complete the season then the gap increases by another 3 points.


That's unlikely to happen as Dempsey is virtually first name on the team sheet for Glasgow now, at no. 8. Fagerson isn't getting a look-in so far this season. Which probably means the Scotland no.8 jersey is currently Maggie's to lose, unless Bayliss shows he's the man.
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Re: Saracens -11th December 3.15pm

Postby BigD163 on Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:23 pm

TheSmidge wrote:
BigD163 wrote:With Mata being potentially injured for the medium term why risk Bradbury when for club and player the Glasgow games are probably bigger. On this seasons showing Bradbury is better than Haining. Saracens unlikely to go full noise and Bradbury will have a chance to face up against two competitors (come AI's 2022) for the national 8 shirt against Glasgow. The way the conferences are set up, win both games and the gap is massive going into the second half of the season. If the URC decide to do something daft like void the SA team results because they can't complete the season then the gap increases by another 3 points.


That's unlikely to happen as Dempsey is virtually first name on the team sheet for Glasgow now, at no. 8. Fagerson isn't getting a look-in so far this season. Which probably means the Scotland no.8 jersey is currently Maggie's to lose, unless Bayliss shows he's the man.


There is a chance they line up with Fagerson at 6 for one of the games as they did at Benneton and if not he'll almost certainly be on the pitch at some point. Considering these will likely be the last two h2h match ups against Dempsey before he is eligible he'll still want to put a marker down.

I don't think it is his shirt to lose yet either. It was only 8 weeks ago Townsend didn't want him in the squad. If he keeps this form up he might get the 8 jersey but don't think he'll be there for Townsend yet. The next three league games at 8 against good backrows (assuming Cardiffs lot are fit) will be a good test.
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Re: Saracens -11th December 3.15pm

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:17 am

TheSmidge wrote:
BigD163 wrote:With Mata being potentially injured for the medium term why risk Bradbury when for club and player the Glasgow games are probably bigger. On this seasons showing Bradbury is better than Haining. Saracens unlikely to go full noise and Bradbury will have a chance to face up against two competitors (come AI's 2022) for the national 8 shirt against Glasgow. The way the conferences are set up, win both games and the gap is massive going into the second half of the season. If the URC decide to do something daft like void the SA team results because they can't complete the season then the gap increases by another 3 points.


That's unlikely to happen as Dempsey is virtually first name on the team sheet for Glasgow now, at no. 8. Fagerson isn't getting a look-in so far this season. Which probably means the Scotland no.8 jersey is currently Maggie's to lose, unless Bayliss shows he's the man.


I think the 8 shirt will be Bayliss' to lose but I think BigD meant Dempsey although I think he's only eligible in a few years (and I'd rather he didn't chose to play for Scotland anyway).

Bradbury if he continues how he's playing will be in the squad. If he doesn't take his chance and say Muncaster or Haining is better I think Bradbury is maybe not the player we all hoped.
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Re: Saracens -11th December 3.15pm

Postby TheSmidge on Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:24 am

BigD163 wrote:
TheSmidge wrote:
BigD163 wrote:With Mata being potentially injured for the medium term why risk Bradbury when for club and player the Glasgow games are probably bigger. On this seasons showing Bradbury is better than Haining. Saracens unlikely to go full noise and Bradbury will have a chance to face up against two competitors (come AI's 2022) for the national 8 shirt against Glasgow. The way the conferences are set up, win both games and the gap is massive going into the second half of the season. If the URC decide to do something daft like void the SA team results because they can't complete the season then the gap increases by another 3 points.


That's unlikely to happen as Dempsey is virtually first name on the team sheet for Glasgow now, at no. 8. Fagerson isn't getting a look-in so far this season. Which probably means the Scotland no.8 jersey is currently Maggie's to lose, unless Bayliss shows he's the man.


There is a chance they line up with Fagerson at 6 for one of the games as they did at Benneton and if not he'll almost certainly be on the pitch at some point. Considering these will likely be the last two h2h match ups against Dempsey before he is eligible he'll still want to put a marker down.


I didn't realise that Dempsey would become SQ next year under the new regulations. Suggestion seems to be that it will be in October, which is a long time away in rugby terms.

BigD163 wrote:I don't think it is his shirt to lose yet either. It was only 8 weeks ago Townsend didn't want him in the squad. If he keeps this form up he might get the 8 jersey but don't think he'll be there for Townsend yet. The next three league games at 8 against good backrows (assuming Cardiffs lot are fit) will be a good test.


On current form, it is Maggie's to lose. Townsend has talked a lot about rewarding those in form, which he most certainly is. Particularly given that Fagerson has only started once for Glasgow this year and someone else has nailed down the no. 8 shirt for them. Agreed that a run at 8 in the next few games will be very important for him (although I think we'll probably see Haining or Muncaster start one of them).
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Re: Saracens -11th December 3.15pm

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:57 pm

Bath are dreadful but Bayliss is playing well for them and played well Vs Japan.

However, Townsend doesn't play those on form he just says it because it sounds good so who knows. Not sure three good games in two months means Bradbury us the player on form either.
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Re: Saracens -11th December 3.15pm

Postby Trophyhunter on Thu Dec 09, 2021 3:49 pm

Japan were pretty average although not quite the basket case level of Tonga so whilst Baylis looks a prospect Bradbury on form is a better more powerful player . Townsend will Tinker and as the Thistle Pod would say Tombolas players in and out of different experiments and Non nationals SQ capping Bayliss .

Bradbury, Kinghorn , Bennett and others not endured all that COVId did to their world but also if we are to believe John Barclay the very worst of Cockers environment . It’s no coincidence that these guys look reborn. Other Edinburgh players at least got respite in the more benign and happier culture of the Scotland squads .
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Re: Saracens -11th December 3.15pm

Postby The Chiel on Thu Dec 09, 2021 4:51 pm

Looks like £4.99 for a stream, unless I've missed coverage somewhere else :

https://www.epcrugby.com/2021/12/07/epc ... lenge-cup/
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Re: Saracens -11th December 3.15pm

Postby Tichtheid on Fri Dec 10, 2021 1:19 pm

Edinburgh Rugby team to face Saracens at StoneX Stadium in the EPCR Challenge Cup
Saturday 11 December (kick-off 3.15pm) - streamed live at epcrugby.tv

15. Emiliano Boffelli 14. Jack Blain 13. Mark Bennett 12. James Lang (VICE-CAPTAIN) 11. Ramiro Moyano 10. Charlie Savala 9. Ben Vellacott

1. Pierre Schoeman 2. Stuart McInally (VICE-CAPTAIN) 3. WP Nel 4. Marshall Sykes 5. Grant Gilchrist (CAPTAIN) 6. Luke Crosbie 7. Hamish Watson 8. Nick Haining

Replacements

16. Dave Cherry 17. Boan Venter 18. Lee-Roy Atalifo 19. Jamie Hodgson 20. Magnus Bradbury 21. Henry Pyrgos 22. Jaco van der Walt 23. Cammy Hutchison (6)

Unavailable due to injury: Luan de Bruin, Darcy Graham, Damien Hoyland, Henry Immelman, Blair Kinghorn, Mesulame Kunavula, Viliame Mata, Pierce Phillips, Jamie Ritchie, George Taylor, Ben Toolis, Glen Young
Last edited by Tichtheid on Fri Dec 10, 2021 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Saracens -11th December 3.15pm

Postby Tichtheid on Fri Dec 10, 2021 1:20 pm

Saracens Men team to play Edinburgh:

1 Mako Vunipola 2 Kapeli Pifeleti 3 Alec Clarey 4 Nick Isiekwe 5 Callum Hunter-Hill 6 Andy Christie 7 Ben Earl 8 Billy Vunipola

9 Ivan van Zyl 10 Manu Vunipola 11 Max Malins 12 Alex Lozowski 13 Elliot Daly 14 Alex Lewington 15 Alex Goode (c)

Replacements:

16 Ethan Lewis 17 Eroni Mawi 18 Harvey Beaton 19 Tim Swinson 20 Jackson Wray 21 Aled Davies 22 Nick Tompkins 23 Elliott Obatoyinbo
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Re: Saracens -11th December 3.15pm

Postby dolf_lundgren on Fri Dec 10, 2021 1:34 pm

Both teams resting a few. Huge opportunity for Savala.

Good to see Crosbie and Sykes in there, we are going to need a lot of dog up front.
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Re: Saracens -11th December 3.15pm

Postby liveinhope on Fri Dec 10, 2021 1:36 pm

So from a quick look both sides similarly missing through injury or "resting" similar numbers of those who would be probable starters in their 1st XV:
Us-Graham,Kinghorn,Ritchie,Mata,Hoyland.
Saracens-Farrell,Maitland,George,Koch and Itoje. (Also Aled Davies and Jackson Wray start on the bench.)
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