Edinburgh Rugby Supporters Club

Thought I'd start a new thread, particularly after Pitfitter's post lamenting contributions - although this might have fitted in the Cockerill / Everitt thread.

It's about Freddy Douglas, and what Everitt now has to do with him. Given a full cap, even if it's Portugal, before he's played a first team game is a very odd state of affairs, and I'd be interested to know if this was discussed, and in what way, with Everitt by Townsend. Is he qualified elsewhere ?
Because if Douglas is worth a full cap now ( and I've really not seen enough of him yet to have a view one way or the other whether it's justified ) then he surely must be given some starts in the next block of Edinburgh fixtures, or the judgement of Toonie and Everitt will look miles apart.
And what, for example, does that mean for Hamish Watson and others in the back row ?

All good questions.

We do have a huge amount of depth in the back row. I suppose the difference with Townsend and Everitt is that it was a free hit for Townsend as he was always going to win that game and of it was close he didnt need to bring him on. Everitt is arguably fighting for his job and cant afford to take risks.

In terms of competition, we have Watson, Ritchie, Crosbie and Boyle all having played 7 regularly and now Muncaster has played there too, although I dont think it is a good use of him.

In terms of budget, its probably an area we can afford to slim down a bit to free up cash for other areas.

I feel for Connor Boyle, he has always looked good and hungry but had very few chances. He must have been delighted when Darge went west apparently clearing the way for him, but it just hasnt worked out like that.

FWIW i thikn we need to make better use of loans, get young guys like Douglas and Boyle out playing 15 games in the English championship and see how they go. In a world where there werent huge egos in the way it is exacly what should have happened with London Scottish, with half a dozen young players sent there every year. Free players for them and a pathway for us. LS going part time make that really difficult, but it looks like we have some sort of agreeent with Doncaster now.

Personally I think we need to move some of the older guard on. Ritchie has a high ceiling, but I don't see him reaching it at Edinburgh under the current regime.

He and others should be looking at Kinghorn and going I can be a top14 and euro winner as well, get out the comfort zone.

Watson top player but he is part of a group of very very good players that has failed to achieve at ER. Both likely on decent money.

We will have injuries but Crosbie, Bradbury, McConnell, Boyle and Douglas are all good or have potential (needs to be realised of course) Dodd I like as well looks a bargain.

Can probably say the similar across positions. Fundamentally we continue to underachieve, we have changed coaches but not really had a player clear out.

dolf_lundgren wrote:
In a world where there werent huge egos in the way it is exacly what should have happened with London Scottish, with half a dozen young players sent there every year. Free players for them and a pathway for us. LS going part time make that really difficult, but it looks like we have some sort of agreeent with Doncaster now.

Part time wasn't helpful, although an absolute necessity for survival once Aberdeen withdrew the sponsorship. Rugby teams cannot survive on Tunnocks alone ! But Scottish aren't really an option for the SRU now we have the tie up with Quins. A number of positives in that of course, including the fact that we're still in the Championship rather than Nat 2, and indeed still with the head above the financial water. But Quins pull a number of selection strings week on week - for example they've released very few players to LS for the Premiership Cup to avoid them being cup tied for later in the competition. Hence the 99 points conceded at Sarries, with probably more spankings to come.

Great shame really - I really enjoyed the rugby and the "Scottishness" when Lineen, Roddy Grant and John Dalziel were overseeing the team and a number of quality loanees.

I didn't see this thread before I ranted on the Benetton one.

It's not that long since we had a huge stock of backrowers and almost all of them injured, so it's difficult to move players on. I hope the A games will allow some of the younger guys time on the pitch, but the likes of Douglas, McConnell and McVie look ready to step up to the first team already.

It’s a tough job for a coach managing the back row talent at Edinburgh however , Everitt may be wise to resist the understandable hype around Freddy Douglas . Play him as a replacement or vs the weaker Welsh teams . He is still developing physically and game wise . A brilliant jackal exponent has not yet shown that he can carry dynamically like Watson , Crosbie, Dodd or even Boyle.

We should beat Benetton this weekend as they will likely be without some of their international stars after a demanding Autumn Nations given Italy’s shallower player pool. Any further regression in performance over the next month will be a disaster and would result in changes that no one would want at this stage in the season. Hoping the guys shift up the gears. Talent is not the issue.

There's a few things at play here for Freddy.

Firstly, South African coaches don't really play with specialist fetcher 7s. They aren't very common in South African rugby who pick packs of large men. Glasgow when Darge wasn't playing last year would pick Veailanu over Gordon for example - Veailanu isn't a 7 and Gordon is a very fine player but never suited the way Franco coaches. Edinburgh have 3 specialist 7s but Everitt plays Muncaster there. It's a philosophical mismatch between the SRU and Saffer coaches, but we can't moan too much about Franco.

Secondly, Edinburgh do have too many big name backrows. I was always surprised the SRU brought Magnus back as clearly Townsend doesn't rate him. There isn't a place for all of Watson, Muncaster, Crosbie, Ritchie, Maggie to be playing as often as they should. Time is up for Boyle, it won't happen for him here. And Douglas and McConnell are more than deserving of time too.
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Thirdly, we play fewer games now the URC isn't played on international weekends. There's less gametime available. Douglas I'm sure would have played if we had the old days of rugby on international windows.

Castlecannon wrote:It’s a tough job for a coach managing the back row talent at Edinburgh however , Everitt may be wise to resist the understandable hype around Freddy Douglas . Play him as a replacement or vs the weaker Welsh teams . He is still developing physically and game wise . A brilliant jackal exponent has not yet shown that he can carry dynamically like Watson , Crosbie, Dodd or even Boyle.

We should beat Benetton this weekend as they will likely be without some of their international stars after a demanding Autumn Nations given Italy’s shallower player pool. Any further regression in performance over the next month will be a disaster and would result in changes that no one would want at this stage in the season. Hoping the guys shift up the gears. Talent is not the issue.

Douglas is physically developed to play senior rugby. He would not have been in the senior Scotland squad otherwise. His ball carrying in the u20s was of a very high standard, well beyond anything we could reasonably expect of an openside - he is a more solid unit than you credit him with. His all round play is of an amazing standard for one so young, he is far from a one trick jackal pony

But its not a case of throwing him in to start all games. It is a case of as you say, getting minutes off the bench. More minutes if he does well. maybe starting if he does really well. Its not rocket science.
Edinburgh have a coach who has failed with a full squad of top players and is now afraid to bring in younger ones, who thinks he needs to stick with the old guard. In other words a problem either of his own making (coaching failure) or a failure of the old guard.

So either the coach gets changed or the current coach changes the old guard. Has to be one or the other. Preferably both. The coach isn't up to the job and the players too comfortable

Apparently Boyle has done his ACL and is out for 10 months. Best of luck to the lad.

It has been said that some of squad seem to turn knowing they’re playing put in a shift and get paid, win or lose, we have alternatives left out not getting a chance, if it’s felt the coach is worried re his job due to results, who’s to blame?
Last night was a game of two halves, shouldn’t tactics change when playing into so much wind? Relieved at the final whistle.

Think the tactic of tackling around the breakdown might have been helpful last night!

Douglas didn’t look out of place when he came on. Also didn’t look “world class” either, but that’s was a really unfair thing for Dalzeil to hang around his neck.

Hopefully he will continue to get chances